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After 2 Years, I'm Finally Defining Evolt

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Scott Dexter

Member info | Full bio

User since: April 26, 1999

Last login: December 11, 2009

Articles written: 10

First of all, I must congratulate those who worked (and continue to work) hard on v2.0 of thesite. --Philanthropy and its best, if you ask me. With the 2nd year Anniversary of evolt, I would like to share what it has come to mean to me.

Evolt==revolt

Like a lot of us, I threw myself into the Webmonkey fray as soon as I came across it, which was somewhere in 1997. Yes, 1997. It was obvious that there was a core group of guru's and active posters, and I felt like I came to know them (building personality sketches in my head). The list would go through periods of high quality, and periods of high noise. The innovation I saw that made the world Right again was the <objunky> --a little piece of web-centric tidbit to offset the noise. --An unsolicited little insight. How perfect, finally an example of what I fell in love with the 'Net in the first place: Free Information. No banner ads, no mailing list registration, just people helping people cause they wanted to.

Then came late 1998. Just through the year I spent on MJ there was a ton of content, most of it valuable. None of it archived. --A tragedy at the very least. Seeing a need to retain this wealth of information, someone you know posted a web-accesible archive of content generated on the MJ mailing list. And the storybook ended. MJ, owned by parent Wired --then soon-to-be parent Lycos-- realized they had missed an income generating opportunity, and sent their lawyers knocking. This event and the formation of evolt is clearer elsewhere, but evolt as we know it was born.--A small group of highly skilled, highly dedicated web workers who want to share what they know, and constantly learn from each other. The notion of the <objunky> was kept, known as a <tip> to you and me. --A payment of currency not based on precious metals, but oh so mush more precious.

Evolt==voltage

On March 9, 2000, I received an email from Adrian Roselli (aardvark), extending the invitation to join evolt's admin core. I jumped at the chance. Little did I know my paid-for productivity would suffer so much ;).

I'd always considered Evolt a resource, and the people I knew by email address alone were evidence of a skill I never thought I had: people networking. Once inside the walls of the admins, these folks became friends. I've never met any of them in person, and have spoken to only one admin's answering machine. I relate to them as friends when I speak of them; its not, "this person I know in Buffalo," rather "a friend of mine in Buffalo." --To me a dear and important distinction.

There's a running joke among the admins that joing them invariably leads to one or more of the following: job change, marriage (or significat love life change), or dwelling change. Call it simple mathematical coincidence or not, but its true, and in the past month I more-or-less qualify for all three. A breakup of a 3 1/2 yr old relationship requiring a move-out, and I received a serious salary increase with a shifted direction here at work. --Oh and our offices are moving this week. Crazy, ain't it?

Evolt changes people. I've learned more about the intricasies of browsers than I could ever research on my own (thanks James), more about database design than I could ever learn (thanks Rudy), and more about pragmatic, pedantic right way of doing things than I could ever listen to (thanks Adrian). Evolt's shown me the strength in peer networking (people, not computers), and has proven to me that it is primary in furthering education and expertise in this crap. I get charged up (pun intended) to help someone on thelist. I love putting aside paid work for a couple hours on Fridays to hopefully spark some insight, if not exposure, to what the world of web development is for me on a day-to-day basis. I'm sharing information, and its free. That gets my blood pumping.

Its been mentioned that this year has been a wonderful growth year for evolt. To be specific, we've been mentioned numerous places for our browser archive, but above that, our recognition as a web development resource has lept beyond word-of-mouth. We're trusted. We (all of us) have built ourselves a solid reputation of one of the highest quality, lowest noise mailing lists there is. That's something to be proud of. And everyone on thelist is resposible for it. Yes, give yourself a smile. You've done something to give back to the Web, and that's what it lives for.

Evolt==evolve

The hardware running thesite and thelist has been upgraded a number of times to keep up, and Dan has literally rewritten then tweaked the living shit out of mailing list software, producing some of the fastest response times from mailers I've seen (and I'm on a number of lists).

We're far from the 35 people that started evolt.

35 people.

Just this summer we passed the 1000 mailing list subscriber mark. From 35 to over 1000 in less than 2 years. That's about 2 new subscribers a day. For a resource that does not advertise, that does not buy ad space, that runs completely on the word of its members, this is incredible. Yet again, we need your help to continue the growth of evolt 1000 people reading thelist, wow! --But how small is a community of 1000 people? --Less than the seating capacity of two 747 jumbo jets.

And we are growing. Steadily, healthy, and as one of the best free resources on the Web. We're not going to charge for content or swap banners for cash (though the offers have been made). Your posts to thelist are yours. Your articles, yours. We're here to give you the box. You stand on it and make a difference. I love that.

Thank you, Evolt. Thank you.

Hit list

Submitted by isaac on December 14, 2000 - 17:13.

I remember in the early days of thelist when we had an unwritten "hit list" of MJ people we wanted to get onto evolt.org. We knew that if we got some gurus to contribute, the people with the questions would follow. sgd's supreme ASP knowledge had him high on that list...

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Foundation myth a tired tale

Submitted by captaincursor on December 15, 2000 - 16:29.

The foundation myth always paints it out like the big bad bullies at Webmonkey tried to punish the plucky little developer who dared to show some initiative. It's a tired tale, and like most foundation myths, a distorted version of the actual events. Evolt has become a quite mature developer resource site with a strong community, so it always baffles me that the founders cling to this myth rather than rising above and moving beyond it. Webmonkey was faced with a situation where one of the readers had made a public archive of Webmonkey content (the monkeyjunkies list) without permission of anyone at the company. Wired acted in a way that any web business would have, by politely asking the poster to stop reposting the material. If one were to do the same to a builder.com list, or even repost labors of love like metafilter or dare I say it - evolt, I would expect a similar reaction. You can't take the content of someones site, or mailing list that they maintain and just repost it without permission. It's was a clear copyright violation, and Wired and Webmonkey acted in a polite, and respectful manner. I wish the founders, maintainers, and community members of evolt all the best. I think it's a great site and reasource. I think they need to get over the flamewar of years past. -Taylor (former monkeyjunkies list dad)

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Foundation myth overblown, but still a foundation

Submitted by aardvark on December 17, 2000 - 04:12.

Yes, it is a bit old. I agree with you there, Taylor. However, it does explain what the mindset was at the time, which is what led to the formation and goals of evolt.org. And at the time, the real bugger to people on the MJ list was the concept that their own posts to the list were being claimed as copyrighted material by Wired (through the archive issue). Technically, I don't think that was exactly what happened, but that was the perception on the list, and hence the catalyst.

I didn't join up with evolt.org because I was angry, I joined up because I liked the concept, and hoped that the frustration that built it might be enough to power it until it got its own legs. Thankfully that happened, and I think that it was well-channeled energy. Of course, I'm still on the MJ list, too, because there's always room for more than one resource.

If someone reposted evolt.org list archives, I don't know for sure what would happen, but so far everyone who has mirrored, borrowed, or even branded something as evolt.org has been supported, even though we were never contacted when it happened, provided they didn't malign us too much or claim it was theirs.

Ultimately, it's a different approach we have, and that myth becomes more and more a myth as it tries more and more to demonstrate the contrast between the ideologies. It's like the telephone game. And it's not even original evolters perpetuating it in many cases, but people who were on the MJ list at the time it all happened.

Anyway, you are correct, and it may not be framed correctly within this article, but hopefully people see it as part of our history, not a grudge. After all, it's not a grudge.

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evolt.org copyright

Submitted by MartinB on December 17, 2000 - 09:46.

It's worth noting that every word you contribute to evolt remains your copyright. evolt.org does not and will not claim ownership. Neither will we sell membership lists, banner space or take part in any other commercial deals.

If a member put up an archive of thelist (not that they would need to), we wouldn't send in the lawyers claiming that they were "breaching evolt.org's copyright" - it's not our content to defend. We possibly would inform that they had better have clearance from each and every contributor whose work was re-published.

That's what copyright is about. Unless you're producing content in your capacity as an employee, you own the rights until you assign them elsewhere. At no point did I assign my rights in the content I posted to MJ to anyone, so Wired had no place to ask anyone to take down an archive of it without requesting my support in doing so.

(Sidenote: we have gently discouraged one or two people from copying the evolt.org site design, but as that's been worked on jointly by members as a single work, that's slightly different)

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How is it different?

Submitted by captaincursor on December 17, 2000 - 13:54.

If a member put up an archive of thelist (not that they would need to), we wouldn't send in the lawyers claiming that they were "breaching evolt.org's copyright" - it's not our content to defend. We possibly would inform that they had better have clearance from each and every contributor whose work was re-published. How is that any different than what Wired did? Yes, everyone owns their own words, but the controlling entity of ALL the words that are passed through any conduit belongs to the publisher. At no point did Wired go after posters for reposting thier own posts elsewhere, they asked that an archive of ALL posts be taken down. By posting here I'm giving implicit permission to evolt to republish my words. I'm not giving permission to any of evolt's readers to republish it. There is also an understanding that evolt, as the publisher, will protect my words from missuse. Right now I'm engadged in a discussion about evolts mission, if I suddenly find my words reposted on bigorangejerks.com I would both myself and evolt would have been harmed for missuse of our intellectual property. How is it different when someone takes the layout of page, and just copies it over to their own site, and when someone takes the resources of a community and just copies it over to their site? I don't understand why one action is defensable and the other makes you a villian.

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It goes to intent, Taylor ...

Submitted by elfur on December 18, 2000 - 11:12.

How is it different when someone takes the layout of page, and just copies it over to their own site, and when someone takes the resources of a community and just copies it over to their site? I don't understand why one action is defensable and the other makes you a villian. It goes to intent, Taylor ... I'd like to start by emphasizing aardvarks words, this is how we became, not who we are. And while I don't like to dwell on the past too much, I think we have to look at things in perspective, to take into consideration why Dan originally collected the posts and displayed the archive. It is my understanding that his intention was always, to create the comfort of an archive for the users of MJ, while Wired didn't have one. I don't think that he had any intention to gain anything from it himself, he was simply contributing to the MJ community, a community that he was proudly a member of. It is also my understanding that Wired needed few more months to put up their archive, while we, the MJ community, felt there would be a need for it sooner since individual members where asking for it regularly. Dan, to my knowledge, was one of many who had been on the MJ list for a long while and cherished all mail posted. Mainly because of the high level of quality found there. For him to then share those personal archives while Wired was taking it's time to build the final one was, like I mentioned before, his way of sharing with the great community we were a part of. Sharing his knowledge with the rest of us. What made us angry, and drove us to creating our own community at the time, was the fact that Wired failed to see the generosity of his act, the fact that he was relieving the pressure that had been on them for a while, and giving them the time they needed to quietly build the greatest archive of them all - the ultimate MJ archive - powered by Wired. With all this said, I'd like to emphasize yet again on the fact that this is how we became, not who we are. Since then we have grown and developed and hopefully learnt something from it all. respectfully
elfur logadottir
one of evolt.org's founders

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Why don't you...

Submitted by MartinB on December 27, 2000 - 15:58.

Taylor

Here's an idea. Why don't you put together an article on how you view a community-based site (such as this one) should support the rights of its members to the content which they produce, and submit it here.

From long experience of the articles at Webmonkey, I know you've got the writing skill. I would assume from repeated bashing by lawyers, you have some reasonable level of understanding of IP law, even if it's all prefaced with a large I am not a Lawyer caveat.

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